Recorded on June 30, 2025

AI journalist Karen Hao’s guide, Empire of AI: Goals and Nightmares in Sam Altman’s OpenAI, tells the story of OpenAI’s rise to energy and its far-reaching impression everywhere in the world. Hear from Karen Hao, former MIT Expertise Overview senior editor, and govt editor Niall Firth for a dialog exploring the AI arms race, what it means for all of us, and the place it’s headed.

Audio system: Karen Hao, AI journalist, and Niall Firth, govt editor.