Within the newest Marvel Cinematic Universe entry Thunderbolts*, a reluctant squad of antiheroes group as much as save New York Metropolis. Behind the scenes, one other superteam comprised of A24 alumni joined forces. As this trailer breaks down, Thunderbolts* is dropped at you by “the writers and director of Beef, the cinematographer of The Inexperienced Knight, the manufacturing designer of Hereditary, the editor of Minari and the composers of Every little thing All over the place All at As soon as.”

That Inexperienced Knight cinematographer could be Andrew Droz Palermo, whose resume contains work for each Marvel (the Disney+ sequence Moon Knight) and A24 (David Lowery’s A Ghost Story and the upcoming Mom Mary). With Thunderbolts* out in theaters now, Palermo spoke to Filmmaker concerning the necessity of 1.3x anamorphic for the challenge, end-of-the-movie confidence on a manufacturing and the hill he’s keen to die on in relation to taking pictures virtually.

Filmmaker: To begin, dispel one thing for me. You shot many of the film on the Arri Alexa 35, however I’ve learn just a few occasions now that you just additionally shot on the Alexa 265—Arri’s new, smaller 65mm digital digital camera. I didn’t assume that digital camera was even obtainable but whenever you shot Thunderbolts*.

Palermo: It’s humorous, I’ve had a pair individuals on Instagram write me about that too. I might say 95 p.c of Thunderbolts* was shot on the Alexa 35. There are additionally just a few Pink Komodo-X photographs and Mini LF photographs, however we didn’t use the Alexa 265. I believe the confusion comes from the after credit sequence, which was shot on the 265 by Tom Sigel and the Russos [while making Avengers: Doomsday].

Filmmaker: You posted a protracted record of substances used on the film on Instagram, together with drones, helicopters, night time imaginative and prescient programs, low angle-prisms, GoPros and “distant heads galore.” What are these Sirui client lenses you could have on that record?

Palermo: On a earlier film that I’d carried out with David Lowery—Mom Mary, which is meant to return out later this yr—we shot on 2x anamorphic, and I discovered that I actually wished to scout in anamorphic if the film was going to be shot in anamorphic. So, going into prep for Thunderbolts*, I believed “Discovering lenses with a 1.3x squeeze to scout with goes to be robust,” however lo and behold, these Siruis [fit what I needed[. They’re nice lenses but inexpensive compared to a $20,000 lens. I think they were maybe $600 per lens. They’re really characterful and incredibly small. [Director] Jake Schreier and I grew to like them, and we stored saying, “We’ve obtained to discover a place for them to really go within the film as a substitute of simply utilizing them as a viewfinder sometimes or in a crash cam.” I really simply reached out to them to check out just a few of their different traces. It’s good to have nice lenses round even whenever you’re not taking pictures a film. You get so little entry to the good optics—Panavision, Cooke or Arri Grasp Primes. I don’t personal these issues. They’re so costly. It’s nice that these extra client lenses are doing fascinating issues.

Filmmaker: Did you want a lens mount adapter for them? 

Palermo: Earlier than the film I purchased a Pink Komodo-X with an RF mount, so I obtained the RF mount model of the Siruis. We really ended up constructing a viewfinder [with that combination]. I like wanting via a director’s viewfinder with the precise lens on it, however typically it’s so time-consuming to say, “This isn’t the proper lens. Change to the 75. Really, no, let’s return to the 65.” You’re wanting via the viewfinder and describing what you’re seeing to the director, who’s proper subsequent to you. Or it’s vice versa and the director is like, “Wouldn’t it’s higher right here?,” however I can’t see what they really see. So, I wished to attempt to construct a Komodo-X viewfinder that we put a zoom on—a 1.3x squeeze anamorphic zoom—and we had it taped off in order that it had the consultant prime sizes. The nice factor is we may file the shot. So, for instance, if we had been working via a shot with a punch and a kick, then we wished to pan over to a different character, Jake may strive one [on this Komodo-X rig] and say, “What about this?” Then I may strive one [and show him]. It was a extremely nice course of and I’m glad I spent a while creating it.

Filmmaker: For the motion scene within the O.X.E. vault the place the Thunderbolts are first pulled collectively, you shot stunt vis in prep. Did you utilize that Komodo-X viewfinder system for that?

Palermo: I want we had, however we shot it on iPhones only for velocity and ingestion of the media as a result of Jake was chopping it himself. Sooner or later we’d take into account taking pictures one thing like that on the Pink or another digital camera that I can handle myself, as a result of what you notice is that when the digital camera is considerably the correct measurement, you possibly can’t get it into the identical locations the iPhone obtained [when you shot your previs]. Generally you do these strikes which can be simply insanely quick on an iPhone, then it’s a must to backwards-program and say, “How the hell are we going to make a Technocrane do this?” It may be a enjoyable problem, however typically it units you up for a extremely tough shot whereas when you knew from the start the correct measurement and weight of the physique and optics, it’d change the way in which you’d shoot it.

Filmmaker: In that Instagram put up you additionally talked about utilizing your private set of Riedel Boleros. These are some form of intercom system? 

Palermo: It’s an unbelievable set-up. I do know it appears like I’ve some gear as a result of I lately purchased that Komodo-X, however I really personal little or no. One of many issues that I did spend money on is that system. It’s extremely strong. You’ll be able to have six channels which can be individual to individual, or you can also make teams. On this walkie system, I can press a button and speak to the whole lot of the A Digital camera group and solely the A digital camera group hears me, or I can press one other button and communicate to solely the B Digital camera group. It’s extremely modular. You can also make little teams. You can even speak over one another. With conventional analog walkie talkies, I’ve to press and maintain a button, say what I need to say, let go of the button after which await the particular person to reply. It simply creates a calmer atmosphere and such fluid communication. I’ve seen actually strong programs constructed out. They do it for the Star Wars TV exhibits the place I believe the complete crew is on them, together with the AD division. That will get scaled method past the system that I’ve. I simply have a 10-walkie system.

Filmmaker: Do you utilize a daily surveillance earpiece with it?

Palermo: You should utilize various things. You should utilize ear pods. I take advantage of an open ear bone conduction factor, so my ears are by no means plugged. I can hear what’s occurring round me and the Comtek additionally pipes into it, so I can hear the manufacturing audio with out having one more factor in my ear. It was that I might be utilizing a headset to speak to the crane ops, a walkie to speak to the digital camera group, after which in some way I’d have to handle to get on a Comtek to listen to the recorded audio, and it was only a mess. This can be a actual enchancment. 

Filmmaker: Let’s speak concerning the opening shot of Thunderbolts*. You begin on a close-up of Yelena (Florence Pugh) and the digital camera pulls again on a crane to disclose that she’s sitting on the ledge of a 2,000-foot skyscraper in Kuala Lumpur. She stands up and steps off the ledge—a stunt Pugh did herself whereas cabled to a descender rig on the roof. How are you with heights?

Palermo: I’m fairly good with heights. Really, as soon as we had been on the correct half the place we had been filming, it felt extremely protected. There have been some locations in strolling up there [that could make you a little nervous], some small catwalks, however they’d railings and met Disney and OSHA security requirements, that are extremely excessive. We had been additionally cabled in so had been we to fall, you’d solely fall thus far and be stopped by a cable. It was a extremely difficult shot to realize. We needed to construct up a decking system on high of the roof as a result of it was coated in photo voltaic panels and we would have liked to get a crane up there and this huge descender rig.

The climate was additionally precarious whenever you’re up that prime. You’re within the clouds and likewise in a rainforest, so it’s raining always. Somebody from Disney Security had a lightning meter and it was always going off. So, we’d need to stroll down three tales after we coated up all of the gear and wait till there wasn’t any type of lightning exercise. Then we’d all return up, uncover the gear, prepare and naturally there’d be a lightning strike, and we’d have to try this entire course of once more. We obtained fortunate on the morning that we meant to shoot that shot. There was a window, and we obtained it. Florence jumped just a few occasions. I can’t bear in mind precisely what number of, however greater than as soon as for certain. We felt actually good about what we obtained and even picked up a pair issues that we hadn’t meant on taking pictures. As a result of we had been there, we thought, “We would as nicely get one other shot or two,” although it wasn’t storyboarded and in the end wasn’t used.

Filmmaker: For the large photographs the place the stunt particular person is available in and deploys the parachute, what number of cameras did you cowl with?

Palermo: I can’t recall what number of it was. There have been two full-sized drones within the air, I believe three floor cameras, then there was a helmet cam [on the stunt person]. You couldn’t get a helicopter there legally and the allowing time was too lengthy, so we needed to do it with drones rigged in order that they may very well be wanting upward. 

Filmmaker: Had been you in a position to rig Alexa 35s to the drones?

Palermo: Sure. That was vital to me. It was like, “I’m not going to go all the way in which to Malaysia and do that insane opener and shoot it on a client drone.” We needed to get the true cameras up there. We knew it was going to be an IMAX shot. It wanted to look unbelievable, and I wasn’t going to chop a nook and say, “Yeah, that factor you may get down at Greatest Purchase is okay,” although a few of these drones look excellent.

Filmmaker: Because you talked about IMAX, the Alexa 35 sensor is round 1.5:1, then along with your 1.3x anamorphic squeeze you’re mainly capturing a 1.9 body, which is the ratio of most IMAX theatrical shows. Most occasions the IMAX sequences need to be predetermined as a result of they’re typically shot with completely different set-ups than the remainder of the film, however because you had been capturing all the things in 1.9 after which cropping to 2.39 for non-IMAX deliverables, may you primarily decide later which scenes would in the end play within the IMAX ratio?

Palermo: You might considerably determine later, and I believe Jake would’ve beloved it if I might’ve stated, “Yeah, we are able to simply determine all of it later,” however that letterboxing space [above and below the frame in 2.39] is a priceless house for gear. If I need to convey a light-weight just a bit nearer or decrease, it saves you time since you’ve obtained that little little bit of padding [on the top and bottom of the shot]. So, not all the things may have been IMAX. Nevertheless, I believe fairly a little bit of the results had been completed in IMAX simply in case we modified our thoughts on something. An enormous factor for me was that I wished to make it possible for it felt like the identical movie after we went to IMAX as a result of typically I’ve observed in films that you just’ll really feel the swap in format in a method that I bump in opposition to. They might be taking pictures movie and amorphic for almost all, however then they swap to a digital spherical to do the IMAX parts and it could possibly really feel fairly jarring. For me, when the film lives on for individuals at dwelling in a single format—solely in 2.39 or no matter it could be—I need it to really feel like a cohesive factor. That’s why utilizing the 1.3x squeeze lenses actually drove the entire thing as a result of we may both select to letterbox or not, and it could all the time look the identical. You wouldn’t really feel an optical shift. You wouldn’t really feel a digital camera shift.

Filmmaker: The Extremely Panatar IIs that you just used for many of the shoot additionally cowl giant format sensors, although the facet ratio would’ve been completely different with a special sensor measurement. Did you ever take into account going giant format?

Palermo: Earlier than Thunderbolts* I had simply shot on the Alexa 35 for Mom Mary and actually preferred it. I’m at some extent proper now the place I’m not as into the shallower depth of subject that you just typically see with bigger sensors and the longer lenses that you just use consequently. I actually prefer to see backgrounds, to see the environments. I prefer to really feel individuals inside their areas. I similar to the smaller sensor really feel. I preferred additionally the excessive ISO on the Alexa 35. I used to be proud of the 1600, which is kind of clear. As a result of we had been utilizing the small sensor I used to be in a position to have Panavision velocity up the lenses as a result of it doesn’t have to cowl as large. So, the aperture may be smaller and thus brighter. I believe you achieve nearly a complete cease, which is identical factor I had them do on Mom Mary, the place I had them velocity up the ALFAs I shot that film on.

Filmmaker: You shot that prime rise bounce on one of many final days of manufacturing, then the identical day you probably did the explosion shot the place Yelena is within the foreground and the lab blows up in a constructing behind her. That’s an enormous day.

Palermo: Yeah, insane day—I consider the second-to-last of principal pictures. The very closing day is the stuff with Yelena touchdown on the rooftop with the parachute and having that temporary combat with the safety guard. Florence jumped off the constructing within the morning after which we company-moved throughout city and arrange a road market that Yelena is strolling alongside. We rehearsed it a bunch of occasions with the digital camera transfer and somebody saying “bang” [to simulate the timing of the explosion]. After we had been prepared and felt assured—or as assured as one may very well be whenever you’re about to do an explosion that will take an hour or extra to reload—we went for a take. The glass was eliminated for that ground of the constructing, and so they had cannons mentioning of the home windows. They hit the set off and all this fireplace and a few particles got here out. We had been proud of that one take. We stated, “That’s an excellent day, all people. Let’s go dwelling.”

Filmmaker: Would a second take have been attainable or was it all-or-nothing?

Palermo: We had been ready to reload, however I beloved Jake’s confidence in that second. I believe numerous administrators would have a problem strolling away with one take and saying, “Yeah, we obtained it.” It was form of end-of-the-movie confidence. Possibly at first of a shoot you would possibly say, “We higher get a second take.” However by the tip of the film Jake was similar to, “That’s the shot,” and all of us mainly went again to the lodge pool.

Filmmaker: In between the constructing bounce and that market explosion, Yelena breaks right into a top-secret lab. There’s an overhead shot monitoring along with her as she takes out a hallway of guards and also you’ve backlit it, casting these lengthy shadows on the bottom. I loved that one.

Palermo: That really predated my time on the movie. It was one thing that Jake wished to do. I believe it could have even been within the screenplay. Jake and [frequent Rian Johnson cinematographer] Steve Yedlin had began work on that shot collectively, however then I took over for Steve after the strikes. I’m certain in executing the shot I modified the methodology a bit, however the identical idea held true. It was going to be an overhead the place we adopted the shadows. One factor that I won’t have found out alone—and that is the brilliance of Steve, who could be very technically minded and a extremely gifted cinematographer—is to have the sunshine observe the motion a bit as a result of [if we had not done so] as Yelena obtained to the tip of the hallway the shadows would’ve been a lot longer [than when the shot started]. So, the sunshine was placed on a Technocrane and moved to maintain a considerably related distance over the course of the hallway. 

Filmmaker: What unit did you utilize? 

Palermo: If I’m not mistaken it was a Fiilex Q10, which is an LED laborious mild I really use very often. I like to make use of them in bounce conditions the place I simply want slightly extra fill in a room. I’ll bounce them off slightly muslin.

Filmmaker: Let’s go from the primary scene within the film to the very first thing you really shot, the O.X.E vault sequence. This set was constructed earlier than the strike, so it mainly sat dormant for a yr earlier than it was used.

Palermo: That’s proper, although I wouldn’t say it was totally full but. In fact, the supplies aren’t meant to take a seat that lengthy, so by the point we began taking pictures the ground within the vault, which seems type of like metal grates, had turn out to be fairly versatile and loud. It was breaking in locations, and we needed to convey Technocranes onto that. After we picked pictures again up, I went again via and did many of the finessing of the lighting. There have been no lights nonetheless in there. They ripped all that out as a result of they didn’t need to have that on rental [during the break]. Considered one of my very first days I walked via with the gaffer Rafael Sánchez and talked about what I used to be anticipating and the way I used to be planning on approaching issues. I don’t assume it was most likely massively completely different from what Steve Yedlin may need imagined, however all of us have our go-to fixtures and placements. Any two completely different artists are going to have completely different approaches. 

Filmmaker: What are a few of your go-to fixtures?

Palermo: The factor that I say typically with gaffers is, “If I name for a fixture and you’ll inform me your explanation why it ought to be X, Y, Z fixture as a substitute, I’m completely recreation.” I could typically say, “I completely get what you’re saying, however I simply don’t like that lamp.” The factor that I bump on most, with out naming names, is usually the colour and chromatic aberration in more durable LED lights. For probably the most half there’s good and unhealthy issues about each fixture. I like the Vortexes, all of the SkyPanels, the Fiilex10s, which I discussed earlier. I take advantage of numerous completely different stuff. I’m not a one-brand-only particular person. This movie was numerous delicate mild and little or no laborious mild. We used only a few tungsten sources. There have been HMIs after we had been outdoors within the New York Metropolis road units, however outdoors of that little or no laborious mild, which was becoming for the temper of this film and its overcast really feel. It by no means felt proper to blast in solar very a lot.

Filmmaker: How did you go about lighting that lab? It’s a huge set with a ceiling piece.

Palermo: Getting mild into the middle of the room was a problem whereas not making it look an excessive amount of like a studio. That’s the factor that Jake, particularly, was very delicate about and I actually appreciated his eye for that. He simply actually didn’t need it to really feel too manipulated. He wished it to really feel like a basement of a basement. It ought to a forgotten house and when it begins to get too designed, it cuts in opposition to that. So, along with the large bars of sunshine on the wall, I hung some softer, greater sources including a bit extra delicate again mild. There’s some SkyPanel 360s ringing the set in all instructions. Then, from the ground, the lighting group would drag round two S360s with eight-foot OctaDomes and people could be going via Magic Material. That was mainly my key, nearly all the time. I might jockey these two lights round—one for entrance fill, which might be at a decrease stage, then one for slightly extra side-y key. The channel alongside the wall I may dim down if it felt too heavy on the hair mild. I additionally would play with the left and proper facet a bit. The off-camera facet could be a bit extra down than the on-camera facet. One factor they invested in for the primary iteration of the film is they really put mild within the ground. The set was constructed a bit raised and there’s mild ribbon underneath that ground, and Steve was going to have an under-light coming via the grates. I didn’t find yourself utilizing that in the way in which that I believe he was planning on utilizing it, however I did use it to mild the backgrounds for a little bit of cool mild. It gave us some coloration distinction as a result of all the things else was simply rust. Normally, I like a bit extra monochromatic picture if I’m going heat. I need all the things to be considerably heat, however inside various levels. I don’t like a daylight hit and a heat hit on the similar time, a minimum of not for this film.

Filmmaker: In among the behind-the-scenes photographs from the movie I see silver lenses on the digital camera. I believed the Extremely Panatar IIs had been black. What are these silver lenses?

Palermo: These are literally Extremely Panatar IIs, however ones that had been created for us. Panavision made a pair new ones for me along with dashing them up. Throughout my preliminary scouting with Jake, he stored going to the large facet with the director’s viewfinder and I believed, “Oh, we’re going to wish some wider ones.” He actually likes to be extra large and tight than on an extended lens, so Panavision made us a 21mm, 24mm and 27mm. I believe there might have even been a 19mm. Sooner or later [when we got too wide] we needed to swap totally to a spherical. We carried a 16mm spherical and perhaps even a 14mm spherical. At sure factors—beginning with the 24mm, if I’m not mistaken—the Panatars grew to become a rear anamorphic factor and never a entrance anamorphic factor. So, they undoubtedly seemed distinctly completely different than the focal lengths down the road. 

Filmmaker: That Extremely Panatar II set solely has seven focal lengths. Are they going so as to add your large lenses to the choices for the subsequent present that desires to make use of these?

Palermo: For probably the most half with Panavision, whenever you get a customized set, the second it leaves your fingers it’s best to simply assume it’s been disassembled for its glass and its components. Even after we got here again for pickups, they had been like, “Which of them of these do you want us to make once more?”

Filmmaker: We’ve talked about among the greater set items, so let’s go along with a smaller scene when Yelena goes to go to her father (David Harbour) at his house. It’s lit very low key. Outdoors of the practicals we see in body, what are you utilizing there?

Palermo: For the tighter photographs we made a customized LED mild, which we known as “the Bomba” after the electrician that helped construct it. I actually like the standard of bi-color LiteTile fairly a bit and Rafael [E. Sánchez], the gaffer, wished to make one thing related of his personal that was RGB and put Magic Material in entrance of it. They made just a few completely different ones. So, for these close-ups [in the apartment], the important thing mild is simply this kiss of a customized RGB LED. If there’s anything in her eyes it may need been a paper lantern that we’d put both a one-foot Aputure Infinity Bar or an Aputure MC Professional inside. It’s an effective way to get slightly delicate fill fairly near the actors. I like to carry it subsequent to the actor and have a look at their eyes to attempt to discover the place I might really need this little catch mild to. So, I’d discover the spot and a grip could be proper there with a stand and lock it in the place I discovered it.

Filmmaker: Did you method lighting close-ups otherwise for Florence Pugh versus David Harbour?

Palermo: Not essentially. I are likely to mild everybody kind of the identical. The one factor I do otherwise is that the peak of the sunshine can change based mostly on somebody’s facial options. You probably have an actor whose eyes are a bit extra sunken in, that mild would possibly have to be a bit extra eye stage, or perhaps a tiny bit decrease than eye stage. Florence has a extremely beautiful face and might deal with mild from most instructions.

Filmmaker: You get to do your model of the Stark Tower penthouse. Did you return and have a look at it in earlier Marvel films?

Palermo: Yeah, I checked out among the older movies. I wished to face on their shoulders a bit as a result of it’s an enormous house and difficult house to make look actual. I began to have a look at pictures from skyscrapers simply attempt to refamiliarize myself with what the distinction ratio between the within and out of doors ought to be. Actually, it most likely could be one other cease up or perhaps even two stops hotter outdoors, but it surely’s purported to be a grey, cloudy, overcast day, so we discovered this form of in-between which I believe is kind of good. I additionally checked out some stuff from Christopher Nolan, who does that [scenario] fairly nicely. From my understanding, he typically simply goes into actual areas and shoots rapidly sufficient that they don’t really feel the need to chase the sunshine. I believe in The Darkish Knight and even the primary Batman there’s some scenes in actual skyscrapers in Chicago and you actually see that distinction ratio. 

Filmmaker: Inform me about this big New York cityscape translight you used outdoors the tower set’s home windows. Why did you go that course as a substitute of a greenscreen or bluescreen?

Palermo: I believe if we didn’t do the printed backing, we’d’ve most likely gone with white [outside the windows]. Jake Morrison, the VFX supervisor, and I had been very aligned in utilizing colours that had been near what the ultimate picture ought to seem like. So, if we had been taking pictures at night time and felt that the desert was purported to fall off into black, we should always simply use black [instead of greenscreen or bluescreen]. If we had been out in Utah within the desert within the day and wanted just a bit little bit of key, we’d convey out some form of sand-colored display. I believe that basically helped the comps fairly a bit. Once you first meet a VFX supervisor, you need to really feel one another out. So, I used to be like, “Might we do grey, black and white?” I like grey as a result of it doesn’t bounce lots. Jake was keen to go even additional. I believe there are perhaps two bluescreens in the entire film. There’s one shot when Bob is first launched and behind him the door drops down actually rapidly, and we simply couldn’t get a great separation from the important thing display and his hair. So, for that we introduced out a 4’ x 4’ bluescreen. All of us felt horrible bringing it out as a result of we had been so consuming our personal Kool-Support [with using these other colors].

Filmmaker: The town out the window seems fairly convincing.

Palermo: Quite a lot of it’s changed [with VFX]. For the wides particularly it’s most likely totally changed. I’m certain they rotoscoped each little little bit of that room at occasions, however on an extended lens I wouldn’t be shocked if there have been photographs the place little or no was carried out. Once you’re taking pictures on a translight, the make-believe is far simpler to do. Once you’re lighting, it feels way more intuitive since you’re not this vivid, blazing blue factor. The opposite cool factor is the reflections [it casts] on all of the surfaces and on the glass. It breaks, although, whenever you’ve obtained parallax. So, when you’re dollying throughout the set it could possibly all disintegrate.

Filmmaker: How translucent is the fabric? Are you pushing mild via behind it? 

Palermo: They are often frontlit or backlit. We backlit this one. It’s barely perforated, however you can not see via it. If somebody was strolling behind it, you wouldn’t see them. There are all types of various ones and this one kind of felt like an enormous, printed canvas. We had been simply pumping an enormous quantity of [SkyPanel] S60s from behind along with some delicate packing containers up larger, pushing in additional of a sky coloration.

Filmmaker: Let’s end up along with your New York Metropolis road units. I do know you shot lots at Atlanta Metro Studios, however I learn this was shot at OFS Atlanta. What’s that? Have they got soundstages or simply exterior house?

Palermo: It’s only a big parking zone. It’s an organization that has a large manufacturing facility there, however additionally they have this large parking zone they hire out [for film production]. A number of the Quick and Livid films have shot there and put up large bluescreens. Individuals have constructed water tanks on the market. We constructed our New York Metropolis road there. We subtle that total 680,000 sq. ft. We put up full grid overhead over the whole lot of the backlot. It’s one thing that I had seen carried out in westerns earlier than, the place you simply diffuse the principle thoroughfare within the city.

Filmmaker: How do you logistically do this? How large are these items of diffusion?

Palermo: It was 12 large items of material on pulleys hooked up to an exterior truss construction. If I’m not mistaken every one was one thing like 60 ft large, however I can’t bear in mind the precise dimensions. It was a loopy concept, but it surely was story-essential in my view as we had been exploring Void’s powers and this impact of [people disappearing into] these two-dimensional shadows. Jake referenced some pictures from the bombing of Hiroshima the place individuals’s our bodies left these shadows of ash and these silhouettes that remained on sidewalks and had been solid upon buildings. It was terribly haunting imagery. So, my pondering was if there was already a shadow [cast by the actual sun and you’re trying to do this effect on top of it, the illusion isn’t going to work.

I felt it fit the mood of the movie and where we were in the movie for it to be an overcast day, which is not really where these types of movies normally live, in this gray, overcast world. But I really like that we got to go there and that our story allowed for that. So, then it was a question of, how do we do that on this scale? One way would’ve been to bring in four massive construction cranes. They would’ve been there for months on end and those things can rent at something like $20,000 a week each. When you tally that up over the many weeks that we’d be out there prepping, shooting and then doing second unit, it became so expensive that it was clear that my dream of just diffusing the whole thing was actually maybe the most financially responsible option. Thankfully the producing team were down to do it, and we had an incredible grip rigging team and engineers who helped us tackle that approach.

Photo #6

Filmmaker: I think that ought to do it. Anything we didn’t get to?

Palermo: The only other thing I would mention is that one of the things that makes this movie feel different to me is that we went to the places and did the things. That even included the long driving dialogue scene in the desert. It’s a small thing, but a hill that I intend to die on is that I just don’t believe driving scenes (done on stage with LED screens). It was very time consuming for us (to do those scenes practically and on location). It was very hot. It was very uncomfortable. It would’ve been much nicer to be on a stage, but the vibrations you get and the feeling of the camera being on a hard mount and not sliding and panning around was what we were after. It was an approach that speaks to our approach for the broader movie. Yes, it’s harder. Yes, it probably costs a little more money and takes more time, but this is how it’s been done forever and just because there’s new technologies doesn’t mean we have to buy into them. We certainly do use a lot of new technology on the film, but I really appreciated that the whole creative team and the producing team was down for that sort of approach for this film.